Audiophiletalk - MINIWATT....WOW>>WOW>>>WOW

nitpicker.

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Re: MINIWATT....WOW>>WOW>>>WOW
Reply #12 - Jul 22^nd, 2009, 8:12am

VolleynBike wrote on Jul 22^nd, 2009, 12:17am:

OK, anybody driving the thing straight from a cd player or something like a Squeezebox, with no pre-amp?

Don't own a pre-amp at the moment because i've been using my (heavily modified) Fisher 500c receiver, driven by a (heavily modified) Logitech Squeezebox Duet. I'm a little concerned that getting enough SPL out of the MiniWatt will require a pre-amp to drive it hard?

I'm asking this out of curiosity. What defines "heavily modified"? I've heard modified this, modified that but now I'm seeing "heavily modified" more often. What's that all about? Is it a modification to the point where it's no longer sonically recognizable as factory stock or is there a percentage of physical alteration it must go through to be called that? Some lowdown on this would help. Thanks.

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Ed

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Re: MINIWATT....WOW>>WOW>>>WOW
Reply #13 - Jul 22^nd, 2009, 8:39am

Hey Nit, you are gonna love my reply to Volley.....

Hey Volley, I am using my "heavily modified" (no sarcasm intended!) Pioneer CD player as the source. Volume is NOT an issue.

I say heavily modified because it really is! It has an added (fancy) power supply to feed the added output stage that feeds one set of audio out jacks. The other set is what the thing came with. I am not quite sure of the output level but it is not overly high....the added output stage is the same as the stock for all practical. purposes......and both are the same as my Aragon D2A2 DAC.
One thing is for sure a look under the hood and there is no doubt it's been "heavily worked on"! And the "new" audio section does in fact sound better than the one it comes with.

I see no reason a pre amp would be needed.

Hope this helps!
Ed
yes, I do like it better than the Glow.....it does not have a useless USB hole and that alone makes it better in my book. And the volume knob stays one color too.....and....it's half the price!

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nitpicker.

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Re: MINIWATT....WOW>>WOW>>>WOW
Reply #14 - Jul 22^nd, 2009, 9:13am

Ed wrote on Jul 22^nd, 2009, 8:39am:

One thing is for sure a look under the hood and there is no doubt it's been "heavily worked on"! And the "new" audio section does in fact sound better than the one it comes with.

Ok, so it's the visual aspect that separates "heavily modified" from "modified" or even "lightly modified". Got it. Wink

I thought it was just another marketing lingo.

Ed wrote on Jul 22^nd, 2009, 8:39am:

I say heavily modified because it really is! It has an added (fancy) power supply to feed the added output stage that feeds one set of audio out jacks.

Next, what defines "fancy" part? Is it a part that costs certain percentage more than the stock or is it a ....

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VolleynBike

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Re: MINIWATT....WOW>>WOW>>>WOW
Reply #15 - Jul 22^nd, 2009, 10:55am

Ed, thanks i may just have to break down and try one then. Any idea how it compares with some of the other cheap chinese amps that are talked about in this forum like the musical paradise, etc?

Nit, good question! We'd better make sure we have this tightly defined, otherwise anarchy will ensue! Wink

Possible answers: The "modification"

Added extra weight?
Was truly audible?
Wasn't just your "average" modification?
Were too many to count?
Is too esoteric for likes of you to understand, so don't ask me to explain?
Is better than "Your modification"?
It is a "special" modification (so put on your helmet)?
You'll have to send your unit in along with $659 to find out?
Must have bullets to do it justice?

Ok, here's how i justify using "heavily" on my couple of modifications.
Fisher 500c:

It took me 4 months to do.
Ripped out the old power supply and built a whole new one (except xfmr).
Replaced probably 30 caps and 10 resistors. The WHOLE receiver is point to point , so not easy to do.
Added a handful of circuit modifacations.
With the covers back on you can't see any of what i did. It still looks like the same piece of crap that had been sitting in my brother's garage for the past half century.
But BOY are the mods audible! Awesome transparency, sound stage, imaging, etc.

Logitech Squeezebox Duet:

There's probably only 3 people on the planet who've done these mods.
It took me 2 days, literally working under a soldering microscope to do these (first time i've ever done that! %-)
Wow what a change! It was very nice before, now the music doesn't come from the speakers anymore - it literally sounds like the sound floats in the room!
This thing sounds better than several "Heavily Modified" dedicated CD players and DAC's i've built in the past. And it's so tiny and inexpensive it's absurd. The mods only cost me $27 in parts.

And there you have it folks. "Heavily" !!!

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nitpicker.

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Re: MINIWATT....WOW>>WOW>>>WOW
Reply #16 - Jul 22^nd, 2009, 11:28am

VolleynBike wrote on Jul 22^nd, 2009, 10:55am:

otherwise anarchy will ensue! Wink

I think you've just initiated it and here's why.

Quote:

Possible answers: The "modification"

Added extra weight?
Was truly audible?
Wasn't just your "average" modification?
Were too many to count?
Is too esoteric for likes of you to understand, so don't ask me to explain?
Is better than "Your modification"?
It is a "special" modification (so put on your helmet)?
You'll have to send your unit in along with $659 to find out?
Must have bullets to do it justice?

You are calling them possible answers but they are all questions. Huh

Quote:

Ok, here's how i justify using "heavily" on my couple of modifications.
Fisher 500c:

It took me 4 months to do.
Ripped out the old power supply and built a whole new one (except xfmr).
Replaced probably 30 caps and 10 resistors. The WHOLE receiver is point to point , so not easy to do.
Added a handful of circuit modifacations.
With the covers back on you can't see any of what i did. It still looks like the same piece of crap that had been sitting in my brother's garage for the past half century.
But BOY are the mods audible! Awesome transparency, sound stage, imaging, etc.

4 months to do it is fine but what does that mean? I've had one project that took me 6 months due to my work schedule. It was a minor change though.
Replacing an old power supply with a same one but newer isn't really a modification, is it?
Handful of circuit modifications, ok, now we are getting somewhere.
The external appearance, no modification there so why bring it up?
The audibility of modification, in this particular case, how can you compare it to the way it may have been when the unit was new in its stock form?

Quote:

Logitech Squeezebox Duet:

There's probably only 3 people on the planet who've done these mods.
It took me 2 days, literally working under a soldering microscope to do these (first time i've ever done that! %-)
Wow what a change! It was very nice before, now the music doesn't come from the speakers anymore - it literally sounds like the sound floats in the room!
This thing sounds better than several "Heavily Modified" dedicated CD players and DAC's i've built in the past. And it's so tiny and inexpensive it's absurd. The mods only cost me $27 in parts.

Wait a minute, are we getting into yet another modification class? Lets see, if it sounds better than several "Heavily Modified", should it be called "extremely modified"?

Quote:

And there you have it folks. "Heavily" !!!

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VolleynBike Member Offline Simplicity is the most difficult of concepts Posts: 66	Re: MINIWATT....WOW>>WOW>>>WOW Reply #17 - Jul 22^nd, 2009, 11:54am Nit, Your moniker is so apt!
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Cheerwino Seasoned Member Offline AudiophileTalk Rules! Posts: 173	Re: MINIWATT....WOW>>WOW>>>WOW Reply #18 - Jul 22^nd, 2009, 3:39pm Has this thread been "modified" or "heavily modified"?
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udntcme New Member Offline AudiophileTalk Rules! Posts: 7	Re: MINIWATT....WOW>>WOW>>>WOW Reply #19 - Jul 22^nd, 2009, 3:59pm ed, the 6moons review said the amp was "lit up" like a decware amp. does the signature of the minwatt lean to the bright side? i'm asking as a fan of that classic dht sound. thx
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floobydust

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Re: MINIWATT....WOW>>WOW>>>WOW
Reply #20 - Jul 22^nd, 2009, 4:24pm

I guess one might say everything is relative in the world of modifications. No real tangible anything as a description of what was done versus what you would call it. In the past 35+ years I've done "modifications" to almost anything and everything I've owned, not just audio gear either.

One can easily claim something has been modified if you change one part to either a different value or different brand from the stock part. Granted this is very very minor, yet many still consider it a modification. Heavily modified could imply nothing more than you changed out all of the parts with different brands or values to achieve a perceived change in operation and/or performance.

In most cases, I would not consider "easter egging" parts as a modification as the design has not been altered, you simply changed one brand of part for another... not really a modification at all. When you start to redesign the circuitry, that counts as more of a modification as it's no longer as the original designer intended. Whether it's better or worse can be subjective or backed up with some level of measurement data. Anything beyond calling it "modified" is simply relative to the person who did the work... i.e., the longer it takes them the more heavily modified it becomes perhaps.

Back in the 70's I did changes to many a Dynaco PAS preamp and other gear as people wanted metal films in place if carbon comp resistors and "better" coupling capacitors, etc. Was it really a modification?? To them yes... the more that was changed, the more it was modified. But again, the definition is fuzzy here and only you can decide what it implies for you.

Regards, KM

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Ed

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Re: MINIWATT....WOW>>WOW>>>WOW
Reply #21 - Jul 22^nd, 2009, 7:00pm

udntcme,
The thing is anything but "bright". It is simply "right".....not sure what they meant in the review.....

Hey Nit,
I must not have been clear....my Pioneer had a power supply and audio section added on the inside that it did not come with. That's what I meant by "easy to see". This is pretty much a "real" modification in my opinion since the thing has a complete (including power supply) audio section added to it to replace the on board circuitry. Except the old circuit is still there also, feeding a pair of RCA's. And again, the "new" audio section does indeed sound better than the unmodified circuit.

Wait a minute.......maybe mine isn't "modified" maybe it is "circuitry enhanced" since it contains a complete new audio section (including power supply) and this is a new addition and not really a "modification" of the existing circuit....hmmmmm.........

Ed

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Designing a loudspeaker is very easy, building one that actually sounds good is much harder.

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VolleynBike

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Re: MINIWATT....WOW>>WOW>>>WOW
Reply #22 - Jul 22^nd, 2009, 8:05pm

Ok, this is getting silly!

Were some parts changed, one brand or type for another? Yes.
Were some failed parts exchanged? Yes.
Were some values changed? Yes.
Were some operating levels/ranges changed? Yes.
Was some circuitry, that wasn't there before, added? Yes.
Was some circuitry, that was there before, removed? Yes.
Is the result that it sounds "different"? Yes.
Is the result that it sounds "better"? Hehe... that's a trap question, but the answer is "You betcha!"

So which is it? "Modified"? "Heavily Modified"? "Extremely Modified"? "Easter Egged"? "Circuitry Enhanced"?

Whatever! I need a beer...

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proud_indian My System: 84C, Vcap, CCE, Zkit 4 &5, Lowthers, Z Box, Power iso and the rest. A Contributing Member Offline Posts: 1236 x1\|Chennai\|India\|Asia\|223\|349\|	Re: MINIWATT....WOW>>WOW>>>WOW Reply #23 - Jul 22^nd, 2009, 8:52pm VolleynBike wrote on Jul 22^nd, 2009, 8:05pm: Ok, this is getting silly! My God!!!! It took you all such a long time!!! Thinking about what Nit says is a waste of time, replying to his post well......... shreekant
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